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The photos by AlvaroFrota on 20.01.2005 [05:07 ]

Usandals baby-killers in action news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/1.jpg US soldiers in Iraq approach a car after opening fire when it failed to stop at a checkpoint. "Despite warning shots" it continued to drive towards their dusk patrol in Tal Afar on 18 January. Chris Hondros a photographer with Getty News was on hand to record these pictures. news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/2.jpg Inside the car were an Iraqi family of seven. The mother and father were killed but their five children in the backseat survived, one with a non-life threatening wound. news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/3.jpg As the children get out of the car one of them screams, her hands covered in blood... news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/5.jpg The injured child is given first-aid by a US soldier... news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/6.jpg ...as is his sister... news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/7.jpg ...before being taken to a local hospital... news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/8.jpg ...with the rest of his family. A soldier carries one of the children into the hospital while an older sister carries her brother. news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/9.jpg Doctors rush the children inside to ensure no-one else is wounded. news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/10.jpg At the checkpoint a US soldier examines the car. A US military statement said troops trying to stop the car used hand signals and fired warning shots before firing directly at the car, killing the driver and front seat passenger. (Note: Driver's face obscured) news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/img/11.jpg The statement also said that military officials extended their condolences for this "unfortunate incident" and were investigating.

Thanks AlvaroFrota by Bwahahaha on 20.01.2005 [05:36 ]

My heart is bleeding and burning at the same time. The Zionazi are acting savagely and depraved in Mosul as they are taking a beating from IR. I wish I could say to all Muslim friends here Happy Eid but how could I? --- Does Iraqwar plan to host video? I have very good quality videos of resistance actions in GB size.

There are two other photographs by Spies_and_Traitors_will_be_Shot on 20.01.2005 [05:39 ]

i would like to post that i think are important. Can i ask you how to post them? Answer: im g src="ht tp://www.source/image.jpg" whithout the spaces between { and im g " and } will give you the image of the source. Alvaro Frota

Thanks Wholetruth by AlvaroFrota on 20.01.2005 [05:40 ]

About this kind of "unfortunable incident", read the excelent article of Abu Khaleel ref: www.iraq-war.ru/ti ki-read_article.php ?articleId=36979 (close spaces)

Comrade AlvaroFrota by Spies_and_Traitors_will_be_Shot on 20.01.2005 [05:41 ]

How do you post images like that?

S&T by Bwahahaha on 20.01.2005 [05:44 ]

img src="ht tp://www.xxx.jpg remove the underscores (had to remove more and add spaces... sw)

something wrong by turco on 20.01.2005 [05:50 ]

we all know such things happen daily, and the news on such incidents are being censored carefully. Why not this time? Just incompetence?

RE: Turco by dari890 on 20.01.2005 [06:03 ]

This time the reporter managed to the BBC that is why we know it: ht tp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/html/1.stm Remove space

I can't describe it. by Iranian-Shi'ite on 20.01.2005 [08:13 ]

I was planning on writing an analysis of US tactics in Iraq but after seeing those photographs, the essay just doesn't have any importance anymore. I'm seeing little children covered in blood and screaming. I'm remembering Usans asking why the USA is so hated. I'm remembering Usans boasting about what a compassionate country they have. I'm seeing little children covered in blood and screaming.

silent screams by Iranian-Shi'ite on 20.01.2005 [08:21 ]

I see the photographs of the children crying, The world hears silence. The children are screaming and no one hears their voices. I feel as if I am screaming and no one can hear. It is like a nightmare where the voice does not function. No one can hear a plea for help. Photographs are silent - like the screams of these children. Their screams have been rendered as silent as a photograph by a world that does nothing.

third try by Spies_and_Traitors_will_be_Shot on 20.01.2005 [08:28 ]

REMOVEim g src="ht tp://www.freewebs.com/irvideo/they%20killed%20her%20parents.jpg"REMOVE To S&TWBS (and others): Just remove the words REMOVE (and take out spaces, and put curly brackets back -sw) and you will get the picture. BTW: This picture is the same posted bellow by Bwahahaha AF

Those criminals must be erased!! by Zamolxis on 20.01.2005 [08:34 ]

Any American agency, any firm, store and junk food station outside US must become a target. These clerical motherfuckers must be bombed worldwide. They are the pest of the world

S & T by Bwahahaha on 20.01.2005 [08:41 ]

{ im g src=ht tp://www.freewebs.com/irvideo/they%20killed%20her%20parents.jpg} You forgot to remove the spaces m8, just like html!

Bush lies, she cries... by Bwahahaha on 20.01.2005 [08:44 ]

{im g src=ht tp://img105.exs.cx/img105/6334/tkhp6bj.jpg} I uploaded the image to another server.

SOME credit to BBC... [07:03] by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [10:04 ]

but this is an orphan link, so it obviously didn't get editorial approval. No mention of this incident anywhere else on their website - so this URL: news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/html/1.stm needs to be publicised as widely as possible.

There are? by Spies_and_Traitors_will_be_Shot on 20.01.2005 [12:17 ]

:/ how did those get there

NOTHING NEW by Neyaz on 20.01.2005 [13:26 ]

Killing Parents in front of their children is the norm in occupied Palestine Yea....I wonder if those guys were here in Palestine training and watching the Zionists But hey>>>>>>>What goes around ,comes around!

That opening picture... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [14:13 ]

could be the new "Mau Li" image, that will change US opinion of war forever (or at least for a generation - tragically they didn't remember Vietnam when all this started).

I distributed the photo already by picard-fortune-500 on 20.01.2005 [14:30 ]

All I can say is those "soldiers" are lucky I'm not near them with with a machine gun. Words can't begin to describe the rage I feel right now. I pray all Americans in Iraq are turned into shredded wheat. No one had better tell me I need to support our soldiers.

I should temper what I just said... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [14:30 ]

with the depest and most humble thoughts for the boys and their parents who were so tragically taken, leaving them fatherless and motherless at such an important time in their lives. Condolences to all - and all others who have lost their lives in this needless conflict.

Just to make sure... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [14:43 ]

the opening picture IS available on the BBC website as: news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in_tal_afar/html/4.stm I include this, because a lot of idiotic, brainwashed people in the west won't believe it unless there is an authoritative Western source.

How dare they interrupt by picard-fortune-500 on 20.01.2005 [15:32 ]

the Jerry Springer show for the bush inauguration? I muted my TV.

They should interruption the Bush inauguration... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [15:42 ]

to show this picture...

All the photos by kintanar on 20.01.2005 [15:43 ]

You can see all the photos in the Getty Images site: editorial.gettyimages.com And make a search with this reference keyword: 52007332

And every US newspaper... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [15:49 ]

should show the screaming boy (or girl) - not the smirking mass murderer - on tomorrows front page. C'mon USA!!!

Those motherfuckers by Conspiracy on 20.01.2005 [17:43 ]

Those Iraqi's who have not yet woken up to the fact the crusaders don't give a damm about them need to fight for their family children brothers and country and blow those fuckers back to Columbia listen people words never solver any war motherfuckers what wins you a war is bravery guile savvy and intelligence and the most important thing as "Spies and traitors will be shot" knows is loyalty i pray they blow up every won of those parasites scumbag motherfuckers who kill innocent people aaaaaaaaaargh

This is horrible by Ramsis on 20.01.2005 [17:44 ]

But imagine how many of these things happen all over when there is no camera to show the world. This is how the US lost the war. I withdraw my support for the US.

Are you bullshitting, Ramsis? by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [17:53 ]

if you are smart you would have seen the writing on the wall already. Also, "withdrawing your support for the US" implies that you are not US resident. Is that right?

Stopwar by Ramsis on 20.01.2005 [17:57 ]

I want you to add your name to this declaration list. Many Americans are in the list, and they are the originators. www.zmag.org/wspj/index.cfm

@ Stopwar by Ramsis on 20.01.2005 [18:12 ]

I'll tell you this: Since the invention of suicide bombings, soldiers don't feel safe with a car not stoping, and they get nervous, and scared. Please tell me what you would do if you were in that soldier's shoes? Yet, I am condemning this act and all others. I understand that Iraqis lost so much by this so called Liberation war. Still, I think the Sunnis in Iraq are wrong to resist the US in this way. There was no need for blood shed. Sistani's method is the right one. You may achieve your goals without resorting to this violence, and I am condemning the violence that Iraqis are inflicting on other Iraqis. It is really not as simple as you would like it to be. Saddam had to be removed. The people of Iraq could have never done with him. He opressed 80-90 percent of the Iraqi population, and his departure was and is welcomed by so many Iraquis. It is only the few Sunnis and those following Iran and Syria's objectives that caused this violence. They did not want to take a minor role in the affairs of Iraq since they had all of the power before. Now, do you see some one else's point of view?

I didn't know about that one, Ramsis... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [18:21 ]

I've signed up for many online petitions since February 2003, but this somehow passed me by. Full text: “I stand for peace and justice. I stand for democracy and autonomy. I don’t think the U.S. or any other country should ignore the popular will and violate and weaken international law, seeking to bully and bribe votes in the Security Council. I stand for internationalism. I oppose any nation spreading an ever expanding network of military bases around the world and producing an arsenal unparalleled in the world. I stand for equity. I don’t think the U.S. or any other country should seek empire. I don’t think the U.S. ought to control Middle Eastern oil on behalf of U.S. corporations and as a wedge to gain political control over other countries. I stand for freedom. I oppose brutal regimes in Iraq and elsewhere but I also oppose the new doctrine of "preventive war," which guarantees permanent and very dangerous conflict, and is the reason why the U.S. is now regarded as the major threat to peace in much of the world. I stand for a democratic foreign policy that supports popular opposition to imperialism, dictatorship, and political fundamentalism in all its forms. I stand for solidarity. I stand for and with all the poor and the excluded. Despite massive disinformation millions oppose unjust, illegal, immoral war, and I want to add my voice to theirs. I stand with moral leaders all over the world, with world labor, and with the huge majority of the populations of countries throughout the world. I stand for diversity. I stand for an end to racism directed against immigrants and people of color. I stand for an end to repression at home and abroad. I stand for peace. I stand against this war and against the conditions, mentalities, and institutions that breed and nurture war and injustice. I stand for sustainability. I stand against the destruction of forests, soil, water, environmental resources, and biodiversity on which all life depends. I stand for justice. I stand against economic, political, and cultural institutions that promote a rat race mentality, huge economic and power inequalities, corporate domination even unto sweatshop and slave labor, racism, and gender and sexual hierarchies. I stand for a policy that redirects the money used for war and military spending to provide healthcare, education, housing, and jobs. I stand for a world whose political, economic, and social institutions foster solidarity, promote equity, maximize participation, celebrate diversity, and encourage full democracy. I stand for peace and justice and, more, I pledge to work for peace and justice.” Lots of names are still being added, judging by the update figures. Thanks Ramsis.

In response to your other post... by stopwar on 20.01.2005 [18:41 ]

Maybe Saddam did need to be removed. But there was no urgency. Everything was proceeding smoothly with the UN and the arms inspectors doing their thing, the Iraqis having their "one candidate" election, and nobody wanted war. EXCEPT, that is: Bush, Blair, the neocons, Chalabi and SCIRI - all for their own selfish reasons. Now... you tell me that, under such conditions, WAR was the right course of action for the Iraqi people (or the coalition soldiers for that matter).

Replies for everyone: by Greekos-Έλλην on 20.01.2005 [20:23 ]

Bwahahaha : You can upload the videos you got as torrents. Believe me they will be spread in an instance. It is a simple way of distributing material through the internet with no centralized server. People will start downloading from your machine but then the next one who wants to get the file will download from the first downloader and so on so forth. For a simple guide look here: www.staticfiends.com/torrentgump/Pages/how_do_I_make_torrents.php picard-fortune-500: Maybe you should mute and turn off your TV for good. Believe me, the quality of life without the brainwasher machine (aka TV) is amazing.. Ramsis: Who are you or me or anyone else to decide who has to be removed? Does the royal family of Saudi Arabia has to be removed? What about Sharon, Bush, Blair, Putin, Uribe, the guy next door that I don't like, the propaganda media owners? If you preach democracy abide by it and educated people, help them to think and be critical and then they will decide who and when has to be removed. You cannot play God deciding who's good and who's bad. But what can you expect from people that support the death penalty..."WE DECIDE THAT YOU ARE TO BE KILLED"...and some of them pretend to be Christians as well. Better go read the Bible again...you don't have to actually...just read the damn 10 Commandments!!!! THOU SHALL NOT KILL....HYPOCRITES

Report by Getty-Images photographer who took the pics by parvati_roma on 20.01.2005 [21:03 ]

'Why did they shoot? We have no weapons' Chris Hondros Tal Afar, Iraq, 20 January 2005 It was a routine foot patrol. As we made our way up a broad boulevard, in the distance I could see a car making its way toward us. As a defence against potential car bombs, it is now standard practice for foot patrols to stop oncoming vehicles, particularly after dark. "We have a car coming," someone called out, as we entered an intersection. We could see the car about 100 metres away. It kept coming; I could hear its engine now, a high whine that sounded more like acceleration than slowing down. It was maybe 50 yards away now. "Stop that car!" someone shouted out, seemingly simultaneously with someone firing what sounded like warning shots - a staccato measured burst. The car continued coming. And then, perhaps less than a second later, a cacophony of fire, shots rattling off in a chaotic overlapping din. The car entered the intersection on its momentum and still shots were penetrating it and slicing it. Finally the shooting stopped, the car drifted listlessly, clearly no longer being steered, and came to a rest on a kerb. Soldiers began to approach it warily. The sound of children crying came from the car. I walked up to the car and a teenaged girl with her head covered emerged from the back, wailing and gesturing wildly. After her came a boy, tumbling on to the ground from the seat, already leaving a pool of blood. "Civilians!" someone shouted, and soldiers ran up. More children - it ended up being six all told - started emerging, crying, their faces mottled with blood in long streaks. The troops carried them all off to a nearby sidewalk. It was by now almost completely dark. There, working only by lights mounted on ends of their rifles, an Army medic began assessing the children's injuries, running his hands up and down their bodies, looking for wounds. Incredibly, the only injuries were to a girl who suffered a cut hand and a boy with a superficial gash in the small of his back that was bleeding heavily but was not life-threatening. The medic immediately began to bind it, while the boy crouched against a wall. From the pavement I could see into the bullet-mottled windshield more clearly, the driver of the car, a man, was penetrated by so many bullets that his skull had collapsed, leaving his body grotesquely disfigured. A woman also lay dead in the front, still covered in her Muslim clothing and harder to see. Meanwhile, the children continued to wail and scream, huddled against a wall, sandwiched between soldiers either binding their wounds or trying to comfort them. The Army's translator later told me that this was a Turkoman family and that the teenaged girl kept shouting, "Why did they shoot us? We have no weapons! We were just going home!" After a delay in getting the armoured vehicles lined up and ready, the convoy moved to the main Tal Afar hospital. The young children were carried in by soldiers and by their teenaged sister. Only the boy with the gash on his back needed any further medical attention, and the Army medic and an Iraqi doctor quickly chatted over his prognosis, deciding that his wound would be easily repaired. The Army told me that it would probably launch a full investigation. Chris Hondros is a photographer with Getty Images and is embedded with US troops ref: news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=602608

Points to be noted in journalist's report by parvati_roma on 20.01.2005 [21:21 ]

Apart from the lovey-dovey "see how army takes good care of kids whose parents they murder" part (maybe necessary to get the "embedded" journalist's report past US censors), think the points to be noted are these: "It was a routine foot patrol. (...) it is now standard practice for foot patrols to stop oncoming vehicles, particularly after dark. (...) We have a car coming," someone called out, as we entered an intersection. We could see the car about 100 metres away. It kept coming; I could hear its engine now, a high whine that sounded more like acceleration than slowing down. IT WAS MAYBE 50 YARDS AWAY NOW. "Stop that car!" someone shouted out (/IN ENGLISH/), seemingly SIMULTANEOUSLY with someone firing what sounded like warning SHOTS - a staccato measured burst. The car continued coming. And then, PERHAPS LESS THAN A SECOND LATER , a cacophony of fire, SHOTS RATTLING OFF IN A CHAOTIC OVERLAPPING DIN. THE CAR ENTERED THE INTERSECTION on its momentum AND STILL SHOTS WERE PENETRATING IT AND SLICING IT. Finally the shooting stopped, the car drifted listlessly, clearly no longer being steered, and came to a rest on a kerb. Soldiers began to approach it warily. The sound of children crying came from the car. I walked up to the car and a teenaged girl with her head covered emerged from the back, wailing and gesturing wildly. After her came a boy, tumbling on to the ground from the seat, already leaving a pool of blood. "Civilians!" someone shouted, and soldiers ran up. More children - it ended up being six all told - started emerging, crying, their faces mottled with blood in long streaks. (...) From the pavement I could see into the bullet-mottled windshield more clearly, THE DRIVER OF THE CAR, A MAN, WAS PENETRATED BY SO MANY BULLETS THAT HIS SKULL HAD COLLAPSED, leaving his body grotesquely disfigured. A WOMAN ALSO LAY DEAD IN THE FRONT, still covered in her Muslim clothing and harder to see. Meanwhile, the children continued to wail and scream, huddled against a wall, sandwiched between soldiers either binding their wounds or trying to comfort them. The Army's translator later told me that this was a Turkoman family and that the teenaged girl kept shouting, "WHY DID THEY SHOOT US? WE HAVE NO WEAPONS! WE WERE JUST GOING HOME!" .... So this kind of shoot-whatever-moves-till-it-stops-moving is ROUTINE practice for US military in Iraq, ROUTINE for foot patrols.. at NIGHT when they are neither recognisable "as such" by civilians, or able to recognise who/what they are unloading their guns into. Just so happened that THIS time - out of how many such massacres? - there was a journalist present who took photos and had the guts to report what had happened to the outside world.

I am glad there is the Internet by Ramsis on 20.01.2005 [21:23 ]

My heart goes for these innocents who are killed daily.

award winning by floda99 on 20.01.2005 [21:55 ]

This should be an award winning photograph series. I wonder how many newspapers will dare to publish it. Thank God the photoghapher was there at the right time to capture this slaughter of innocents. These photo's should be sent to Allawi en spread on the walls in all Iraq. Btw it's nice to see that photo's can be displayed in the comments section.

front page by skip-trippie on 20.01.2005 [22:21 ]

the above foto was on the front page of yesterdays ( jan19/05) Toronto Star.... Today two people wroten in ..one said thank you for the foto because its the truth and the other agreed that this happens but said that it did not belong on the front page because it is to graphic.... all in all, the more often these fotos and stories get print coverage the sooner the USA will leave...

my tears too by kintanar on 20.01.2005 [22:40 ]

many times i expend time roaming in to the getty site, and yesterday when i see this photos, i feel me really sad for this tragedy, because its a sample of all those tragedies where nobody take a photo.... how many lives broken for this stupid reason?

Test! by Damien on 20.01.2005 [23:57 ]

THIS IS A TEST!

Test! by Damien on 20.01.2005 [23:59 ]

{im g src="ht tp://www.freewebs.com/irvideo/they%20killed%20her%20parents.jpg"} To Damien: { im g src="ht tp://www.freewebs.com/irvideo/they%20killed%20her%20parents.jpg" } Without the spaces, of course. You forget the " in the opening and " in the end of the image source.

Test! by Damien on 21.01.2005 [00:00 ]

{p style='color:blue'}{i} TEST!! {/i}{/p}

TEN COMMANDMENTS?? by MURPHYS_LAW101 on 21.01.2005 [00:38 ]

I do believe you are mistaken on the "thou shalt not kill". Before Mum and Daddy Changed it all to fit what they thought it should say, the Holy Bible clearly states that "thou shalt not murder". Since there were wars through out the Bible, and even Moses slaughtered an entire army by drowning them in the Red Sea, it is safe to say that war is not considered murder by the LORD our God. It is tragic what happened but maybe the male driving the car should have stopped and avoided the American soldiers. Then again, if this had not happened then you people would have nothing to bitch and cry about today. GET OVER IT!

Message above by Bwahahaha on 21.01.2005 [01:24 ]

is brought to you by the resident evil. so please do not mind the delusion. It's the driver's fault for getting himself killed. Entirely his fault for getting his country invaded. Entirely his fault for not able to distinguish the sounds of machine guns nor terrorists in the dark and entirely his fault for speeding up (natural human instinct) to protect his family of small children against marauding non-humans(read USans) who rape and pillage. Entirely his fault for getting shot in the dark. Funny thing is all these innocents killed and Saddam still alive and well. The bible is now an instrument of evil. It is obvious that we worship different gods than the person above and those not unlike him. Peace.

Re: MURPHYS_LAW101 on 20.01.2005 [20:38] by Romasis on 21.01.2005 [02:05 ]

" GET OVER IT! " I hope and pray that this will happen to your kids. What happened to humanity? What is going on in this world? Is that the civilization we are proud of? We better all die.

Thanks for the letter, Ramsis. by Draco_Annie on 21.01.2005 [02:24 ]

I don't always agree with your opinion. It happens. But this time, you've shown human feelings and I respect that. Who knows what this letter will achieve but at least, it's a powerful tool for peace. For love is stronger than fear. Thanks.

@ Draco_Annie by Ramsis on 21.01.2005 [03:56 ]

You welcome Annie. These pictures, along with the pictures of the prisonners abuse by the British army made me nauseate. How can Bush or Blair smile when their soldeirs destroy the lives of those innocents? I say so, even if in their heads, their goal was a noble one. This can not be right.

The Artical above by wewant2no2 on 21.01.2005 [05:21 ]

Aren't some of you guys reading what the article said. IT DID SAY that the U.S. troops were trying to stop the car, and used hand signals and fired warning shots before firing directly at the car. With all the car bombing, how can you blame the troops for shooting the car and killing the two in the front? The kids were very lucky they were not killed. The driver of the car is to blame for not stopping when he/she was signaled and warning shots were fired. HE DID NOT STOP Some of you guys need to read, and not just look at the pictures.

Re: wewant2no2 on 21.01.2005 [01:21] by Ramsis on 21.01.2005 [05:35 ]

Just looking at the British abuses of Iraqis makes me sick. The people were driving in their own car in their own country. This is not the first time that this happens. It happens every day, and few times that was captured by camera. Imagine what goes on when there is no camera. Plus, what you read in the story above is what the militrary sopkesman said. I do not tryust what they say any more.

Re: Ramsis on 21.01.2005 [01:35] by wewant2no2 on 21.01.2005 [06:11 ]

BUT this story is about what happened in the above artical. We all know what happened in the past prison abuse, and that was very bad, and the men who did all that will get what's coming to them. There were some bad apples, and they fell off the tree. NOW back to what this is all about. IT DID SAT THAT there was a CHECKPOINT. The car failed to stop at the CHECKPOINT after the troops fired warning shots, and used hand signals. NOW why didn't the driver STOP? Plain and simple..... HE had to have seen the CHECKPOINT. HE had to have seen the hand signaling. He had to have heard the SHOTS being fired. IT was dusky dark not completely dark you tell that by the pictures. The driver had to have seen what was ahead of him, and heard SHOTS ahead of him. GUNS are very lond. ALL Iraqi's know to stop at all CHECKPOINTS so why do you think he didn't stop?

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